Sines v. Kessler Rush Transcript – Day 12: Chelsea Alvarado, Matt Parrott
Charlottesville, VA – The lawsuit against leading white supremacist organizers and groups began trial on October 25, 2021 at the federal courthouse in Charlottesville, Virginia. Attorneys with civil rights nonprofit Integrity First For America are representing victims of racist attacks at the ‘Unite the Right’ rally in Charlottesville in August 2017.
Official Court Transcript [Courtesy: Integrity First For America] [Click HERE to Download .PDF]
1642111291-2021-nov-9-moon-sines-v-kessler-317cv72-cvl-jt-day_12-finalAdditional Resources via Integrity First For America: Trial & Deposition Video Transcripts • Searchable Database of Plaintiff’s Trial Exhibits
Unicorn Riot’s rush transcript from the day’s proceedings is below. While the official court transcript is more comprehensive, UR’s live notes sometimes contain visual descriptions of elements not noted by the court reporter, including the visual appearance of exhibits shown at trial, movements of parties in the courtroom, and happenings in and around the courthouse.
NOTE: Rush transcripts are generated from Unicorn Riot’s live tweets posted in real-time while observing trial proceedings from inside the courthouse media room. Quotations and descriptions written here are not always precise verbatim quotes and sometimes use paraphrasing or shorthand to quickly capture and convey exchanges during court hearings. There may be some errors regarding details like jury numbers, exhibit numbers and dates as well as typos and missing punctuation. These rush transcripts do not capture every single moment but are our attempt to provide the public with as much direct access to the trial as possible until full court transcripts are made publicly available at a later date.
Unite The Right On Trial:
Rush transcripts: Day 1 | Day 2 | Day 3 | Day 4 | Day 5 | Day 6 | Day 7 | Day 8 | Day 9 | Day 10 | Day 11 | Day 12 | Day 13 | Day 14 | Day 15 | Day 16
Read Unicorn Riot's live tweets from trial proceedings - Day 1 | Day 2 | Day 3 | Day 4 | Day 5 | Day 6 | Day 7 | Day 8 | Day 9 | Day 10 | Day 11 | Day 12 | Day 13 | Day 14 | Day 15 | Day 16 | Day 17 | Day 18 | Day 19
Day 12 – Nov. 9, 2021 (Collected from this tweet thread)
Testimony started with plaintiff Chelsea Alvarado.
Next Matthew Parrott from the Traditionalist Worker Party, a white supremacist defendant in this case, testified. Parrott had extensive responsibilities maintaining TWP’s technical infrastructure. (Jump to Parrott testimony)
Court is beginning now for the 12th day of trial in the ‘Sines v. Kessler’ civil rights lawsuit filed against organizers of the neo-nazi Unite The Right rally in Charlottesville.
Chelsea Alvarado (Plaintiff) Testimony
Plaintiff Chelsea Alvarado is beginning to testify now – Alvarado has lived in Virginia her whole life, graduated college in 2017, is in a data science masters program at UVA now. She works as a biomedical data scientist for an NIH contractor.
Jessica Phillips from the Integrity First for America legal team is questioning Chelsea Alvarado for her direct examination – Alvarado describes going to Charlottesville on August 12, 2017 to counter-protest Unite The Right. She learned about the event less than a week beforehand, from friends.
Phillips: did you have any weapons on you that day…any flags, banners or signs…anything you could throw or that could be used as a weapon?
Alvarado: No
Alvarado is being asked the route she took to walk towards the nazi rally and counter-protest after she arrived and parked in Charlottesville.
She says she ran across a group of people handing out musical instruments and she chose a large metallic blue drum.
After joining the group of musicians and picking up a drum, Alvarado says she and the group she was with ended up on the outskirts of Emancipation Park, where the neo-nazis were rallying that day.
She is shown a map of the area and circles where she was just outside the park.
Alvarado describes beating her drum to try to match the rhythm of the counter-protesters chants.
Asked if she saw any violence from where she was standing there, Alvarado says “I saw what I presumed to be one of the alt-right members with a flag jabbing at somebody…”
Asked why she assumed the flag jabber was an alt-right member, Alvarado says “he was dressed very similarly to the large group that was around him…knowing that there was uniforms and a dress code, it made sense.” The guy was part of a larger group heading towards the park.
Alvarado left the area of Emancipation Park when the state of emergency was declared – she describes walking through nearby streets and ending up at McGuffey Park and joining in on a jam session there.
At some point, Alvarado left McGuffey Park and joined the group that ended up marching to 4th & Water streets (where the James Fields car attack happened).
Alvarado was hit by the car – “I had the drum on my right side, I presume based off of how I saw the drum afterwards that the car hit my drum first and then the force of that threw me to the side…”
Plaintiffs’ attorney Jessica Phillips shows Alvarado a now-famous photo showing the car plowing into the crowd, the photo is admitted and published to the jury. Alvarado points out her blue drum to the right of the car in the photo, marks her arm in the photo, says she thinks she was “in the air” at the time the photo was snapped.
Alvarado circles plaintiff Natalie Romero who is also seen being thrown into the air by the car’s impact. Alvarado describes getting back up after falling down and says she was “scared we were going to get hit again”, seeing Fields’ car reversing.
Phillips: what did you do after the car reversed?
Alvarado: I looked for Natalie but she was already being helped….I remember standing to the side, I saw a girl on the ground visibly in pain but she had already dislocated her shoulder so there wasn’t much I could do.
Alvarado describes helping plaintiff Natalie Romero, who was also hit by the car, walk to an open street and into an ambulance.
After Romero got into the ambulance, Alvarado says a fire chief came and put her in a car, a cop briefly questioned her, then she was taken to a medical tent behind a hospital.
Alvarado says she started noticing a lot of body pain by this point Alvarado says she was worried her ankles were broken but medical responders told her “your boots saved you.”
Attorney Jessica Phillips shows Chelsea Alvarado and the jury another photo – this one is of the aftermath of the car attack scene, the blue drum Alvarado had been carrying is seen with some of Natalie Romero’s blood on it.
Asked about injuries she sustained on August 12, 2017, Chelsea Alvarado describes contusions and hematomas on her legs and knees, scrapes & cuts all over her arms and legs.
Phillips pulls up a pic Alvarado took in the hospital 2 days later, shows severe bruising on her left knee.
Alvarado says she checked herself into a facility 2 days later because she thought she had a concussion – she did have a concussion and was sent to the emergency room. She says she went to concussion therapy for months after that, did exercises w her eyes & to improve balance.
Alvarado describes the symptoms of the concussion she first experienced – headaches, difficulty looking at bright things like screens – as well as issues that developed later on such as a lack of focus and speech issues.
Alvarado says for the first month, she would get bad headaches several times a day but by the end of the year they became more sporadic, but they still happen sometimes. Says she “never had a headache in my life” before the attack. She still struggles with dizziness and vertigo.
Asked how her injuries impact her work as a data scientist, Alvarado says reading and annotating an article used to take her about an hour but can now take all day. Writing and working with code is also now a lot more difficult, she tells the court
Phillips shows Alvarado and the jury a chart outlining her past medical expenses resulting from the car attack In 2017.
Alvarado was a crisis counselor at a youth & family services center- she was in a lot of pain after the attack, and the job required her to drive and spend a lot of time with clients but she couldn’t drive for weeks after the attack. She didn’t have trouble driving before
Alvarado says she missed about a month and a half of work after the car attack Phillips shows Alvarado & the jury a tweet Alvarado had sent in late August 2017 where she wrote “I’ve already missed a week of work cause of this concussion, I feel the debt seeping into my bones”
Alvarado says she got counseling & therapy after the car attack “it was a lot to process… I was lonely, I was isolated… didn’t have a lot of family in the area.” She was diagnosed with depression, anxiety and PTSD
Phillips: what kind of PTSD symptoms did you have?
Alvarado: nightmares every night for the first week… flashbacks, when I would hear certain sounds… any loud noises would scare me…
Phillips is done with her direct examination of Chelsea Alvarado after asking a few more Qs about her mental health symptoms & treatment.
Most defense declines to cross-examine, Chris Cantwell says he wants to cross-examine Alvarado and is at the podium now.
Cantwell: you said some friends invited you to the August 12 event?
Alvarado: yeah
Cantwell: which friends?
Alvarado: just some ppl I knew through a childhood friend
Cantwell: what are their names?
Alvarado lists some names
Cantwell: did Ms. Romero tell you what happened the night before at UVA?
Alvarado: no… I wasn’t in contact with her prior
Cantwell: whoever it was they didn’t tell you about what happened the night before at UVA?
Alvarado: no…
Cantwell: when you attended the August 12 events did you understand there to be violence the prior evening?
Alvarado: I honestly can’t remember…
Cantwell: You can’t remember? Ok…
Cantwell: when you found yourself outside Emancipation Park playing the drums, did anyone in particular tell you to stay right there?
Alvarado: no, I had a buddy that had been assigned to me [when people met up at The Bridge] but I didn’t know them
Cantwell: was the ‘buddy system’ part of a plan… did your friends who invited you know about this plan?
Alvarado: they just kind of had people who didn’t already have a buddy stand to the side and then paired us up
Cantwell: plaintiffs’ counsel asked you if you saw violence and you said it was pretty hard to see things… what was hard to see?
Alvarado: I’m 5’3… I’d had to stand up on my tiptoes to see anything
Cantwell: ..you said you saw somebody jabbing someone with a flag… did you see anyone who you didn’t assume to be a rallygoer engaging in any violence?
Alvarado: I can’t say that I did
Cantwell: you can’t say that you did, or you didn’t?
Alvarado: I was preoccupied
Cantwell is showing Alvarado video of the crowd marching onto Water Street before the car attack – he’s gonna ask her about details he sees in the crowd, presumably as part of what we’re calling his ‘bandana defense’
Cantwell is playing the video where the jury can see it now, the VLC Player traffic cone symbol keeps popping up as he apparently has difficulty playing the video files on his laptop
Cantwell is playing the video now, its a vertical cell phone video of the crowd marching right before the attack.
Cantwell asks Alvarado about the crowd chanting “Black Lives Matter” and whether she saw any flagpoles in the marching crowd
Cantwell is asking Alvarado if she saw any helmets in the counter-protester crowd, she says she doesn’t remember (“I wasn’t paying attention to what people were wearing”)
Cantwell: what about people wearing masks?
Alvarado: i know people were wearing bandanas and stuff
Cantwell: did you notice anything in particular about the bandanas…did you notice any red bandanas?
Alvarado: I wasn’t paying attention to the colors of the bandanas
Cantwell is pausing the video to circle red bandanas and ask about them
Alvarado: I didn’t pay attention to the color of the bandanas
Cantwell asks about the chant “whose streets, our streets” – “do you consider that to be a violent chant?”
Alvarado: no
Cantwell stops the video to circle a person with a black bandana and “armor” (his words, the video doesn’t seem to show any armor on the individual)
Cantwell stops the video to circle a person wearing a red helmet and ask Alvarado if she noticed the helmet, she says she didn’t.
Cantwell’s primary defense strategy so far seems to be pointing out items involving the color red.
Cantwell: you don’t have anything to do with antifa right… do you know what antifa is?
Alvarado: i had heard the name mentioned in the news
Cantwell: so you were aware that antifa is a violent political organization?
Objection, sustained
Cantwell: were you familiar with any antifa symbols?
Alvarado: no
Cantwell shows the famous picture of Fields’ car plowing into the crowd with bodies flying, he circles an anti-fascist flag in the crowd and asks Alvarado if she saw it, she says no.
Cantwell: you testified that after you got hit, you saw the car pulling away?
Alvarado: yeah, I saw the car reverse
Cantwell is done cross-examining plaintiff witness Chelsea Alvarado.
Edward Rebrook, attorney for Jeff Schoep and the National Socialist Movement is cross-examining Alvarado, asks if she could ID the NSM logo amongst rally attendees, Alvarado says no.
Rebrook is done, Chelsea Alvarado is excused as a witness
Matt Parrott (Defendant) Testimony
Next witness called by plaintiffs is defendant Matthew Parrott – Parrott was a co-leader of the neo-nazi Traditionalist Worker Party (TWP) and ran their digital infrastructure. He’s being questioned by plaintiffs’ attorney Matthew Bloch.
Bloch starts by asking Parrott about his lifelong work with IT and computers.
Bloch: you’re a white nationalist and you have advocated for a white ethnostate?
Parrott: yes
Bloch: you believe that the Jewish community is in your words “actively hostile” to white Americans?
Parrott: the organized Jewish community, yes
Bloch shows a June 2016 Gab post where Parrott wrote “…Fuck the Jews. They’re the problem.”
Bloch: would it be fair to say…that in 2017 you hated Jews?
Parrott: no, the organized Jewish community as a political vehicle
Bloch shows the jury a Discord post by Parrott in the Tradworker discord where he wrote “My hatred really only extends towards Jews and insecure hillbillies who signal left for elite status. Every other group is merely a value-neutral obstacle to work around.” [You can see that post, which Parrott just told the court isn’t racist, here.]
Bloch: would you agree that you have stated Hitler was “more of an influence and inspiration to you than any living American?”
Parrott: yes
Bloch asks Parrott if he’s read Mein Kampf, Parrott says yes.
Bloch: you found Mein Kampf to be inspirational?
Parrott: the social and economic policies in it, yes
Bloch: but not the killing of Jews part?
Smith ( Parrott’s lawyer): Objection, Hitler didn’t talk about killing Jews in Mein Kampf
Bloch: you’ve written that it’s important to be a credible threat to global Jewry, correct?
Parrot: yes, to the political organization
Bloch pulls up a Gab post from September 2017 where Parrott wrote that includes saying the holocaust is fake, Parrott says it was a joke
Bloch: you think Black people have lower IQs than white people?
Parrott: on average, yes…
Bloch shows a set of Discord posts in the Tradworker discord that includes posts by Parrott, the cited exchange starts here.
Bloch cites this subsequent post by Parrott (which Parrott tells the court is “not rooted in hatred”): “I don’t hate dogs for being stupid. Most of the hatred of negroes is rooted in trying to pretend they’re something they’re not.”
Bloch shows the jury a September 2017 post by Matt Parrott where he wrote “none of this is going to stop until people like him fear us again because fear and force is the only language they understand” above an article about Charlottesville politician Wes Bellamy, who is Black.
Bloch: you’ve known Matt Heimbach for at least 8 years.. you met him at an American Renaissance conference in 2013… you became close…”
Parrott: yes
Bloch: when you met Heimbach you believed he was of the view that white people were superior to Black people?
Parrott: I don’t believe either of us have ever held that view…I’m a Christian…
Bloch asks Parrott about a previous answer he gave in his deposition in June 2020 –
“And how would you characterize Mr. Heimbach’s views in regards to Black people?”
Parrott’s answer said he believed Heimbach saw Blacks as “inferior”
Bloch goes over a Parrott deposition answer where he said “yes” when asked if he believed Matt Heimbach was anti-Semitic when they first met. Today Parrott had tried to water things down
Parrott: anti-Semitism can mean a wide range of things… It’s not clearly defined… I regret in my deposition simply answering such a complex question
Bloch: by 2017 you and Mr. Heimbach were close friends… you are still close friends?
Parrott: yes
Bloch: you are related by marriage?
Parrott: it’s a complicated situation…
Bloch: you and Heimbach…attended white nationalist events together…
Bloch shows a video clip of Heimbach and Parrott picketing a book store together where Heimbach is yelling “the day of the rope is coming” while Parrott is holding a placard of someone being lynched
Parrot: i regret holding that placard as it’s bad optics…easily misrepresented
Bloch: Heimbach is yelling “the day of the rope is coming”, that’s a reference to a book about the mass lynching of reported race traitors?
Parrott: yes
Bloch: you and Mr. Heimbach have founded a number of white nationalist organizations together?
Parrott: I believe only the Traditionalist Youth Network and its development into the Traditionalist Worker Party
Bloch: the TWP is a national socialist party, correct?
Parrott: yes
Bloch: based on Hitler’s nazi party?
Parrott: it had a lot of influences…
Bloch: we can agree the nazi party was one of the influences…?
Parrott: the social and economic policies, yes
Bloch: but not the jew-killing policies?
Parrott: no…
Bloch is asking about TWP’s party position calling for a white “ethnostate” & is showing the jury part of TWP’s membership guide given to new members.
Bloch: one of the things it makes clear is that TWP as an organization is proudly anti-Semitic?
Parrott: it might say that yes
Bloch: this guide says the Jewish people are a separate ethnicity from Europeans… one of the goals of TWP is to remove Jewish people from power and influence…?
Parrott: it would be to create a separate community… where they would not be welcomed
Bloch: the TWP guide says “Organized Jewry and their Gentile collaborators will be removed from their positions of power and influence…”
Parrott: yes but in the wider context… this is not calling for… persecution…
Bloch: you and Mr. Hiembach tout the fact that TWP is an FEC-registered political party, correct?
Parrott: yes
Bloch: Jewish people are forbidden from joining as members?
Parrott:…
Bloch: the member packet says “Jews should not have a place in membership or in our movement”
Bloch: you and Heimbach were equal co-leaders of TWP… in 2017?
Parrot: yes
Bloch: Heimbach acted as TWP’s spokesperson… you were really responsible for everything else…?
Parrot: that’s a flattering overstatement but…yes
Bloch: if you wanted you could speak on behalf of TWP?
Parrott: we both could speak on behalf of TWP…
Bloch: you did have authority to speak on behalf of the organization… but you thought of yourself as an under-boss to Mr. Heimbach?
Parrott: I may have stated that…
Bloch: an under-boss is a mafia term?
Parrott: I suppose so… I did not associate it with… criminal connotations…
Bloch: you did at times delegate some tasks to other TWP members.. but the buck stopped w you & Mr. Heimbach…?
Parrott: yes
Bloch: you administered the TWP website, emails, membership servers, technology-related issues.. you would communicate internally to members about IT issues…administered social media accounts?
Parrott:…yes…
Michael Bloch: you instructed TWP members on how to conduct themselves in regard to social media?
Matt Parrott: there was an attempt
Bloch: you had all those responsibilities in summer 2017 and you worked on TWP matters every day that summer?
Parrott: …yes…
Bloch: optics are important to TWP?
Parrott: optics are important to every organization… to us optics is about presenting ourselves and not hiding what we believe in… we were forthright
Bloch: you agree w me that as one of the leaders of TWP you wanted to project a certain image of the organization to the public… part of you role was to protect TWP’s image…?
Parrott: Heimbach was more public-facing although I was involved in those convos & discussions
Bloch: part of your role was to protect TWP’s image, right?
Parrott: …yes…
Bloch: you can affect an organizations in a number of different ways… one way is to tell members how to behave, how to dress… you could put out statements
Parrott: …yes…
Bloch: and another way to affect an organization’s image is to put out statements after an event to present the event in the way that you want to frame it?
Parrott: yes
Judge Moon interrupts to call for a 20 minute recess
Morning break
Judge Moon is walking back to the bench now – plaintiffs’ attorney Michael Bloch is about to resume direct examination of Matt Parrott, former co-leader of the neo-nazi Traditionalist Worker Party
Bloch: as a person responsible for protecting TWP’s image, you engaged in various PR tactics such as ‘spin’… you wrote about events after the fact..in order to affect the image of TWP?
Smith: objection
Judge Moon: overruled
Parrott: I did seek to put the best face forward…
Bloch: did the Traditionalist Worker Party have a propaganda department?
Parrot: yes it did
Bloch shows Parrott & the jury “items put out by the propaganda dept of TWP” – various posters and graphics listed in the Propaganda page on the TWP site. One of the images shown is a poster that says “national Socialism NOW” with a man doing a nazi salute (Parrott says he prefers to call it a “roman salute”)
Bloch: you specifically advised TWP members not to do nazi salutes in public?
Parrot: in situations where we felt safety was imperative and we wanted to avoid conflict…
Parrott agrees w Bloch that he advised TWP members “not to do a nazi salute at Unite The Right”
Parrott: there were public events where it was done…at events of this nature we were careful to not engage of that sort of provocation
Bloch: you advised TWP members to be aware of “optics” at Unite The Right…?
Parrott: yes
Bloch pulls the TWP membership guide back up, shows a section of the guide with rules of conduct – it says “members must avoid using racial slurs either in public or in private”
Bloch: so on paper this was made to make it look like TWP was a group that wanted to avoid using racial slurs?
Parrott: this was a private document for people that paid to join the party..
Bloch: you stated in an official guide for members the goal to avoid using racial slurs..
Bloch pulls up chats in the TWP discord where the n-word is used, the convo goes on to include Parrott expressing hate for Jews (he claims now it was just “a political statement”)
Parrott says in court its “no surprise” that such words are used in private
Bloch asks Parrott about the fact that he didn’t seem to be kicking out people who used slurs in the TWP discord – Parrott says rule was “aspirational..these are all grown men and this is an internet chat server, a gaming chat server..I have no latitude to spank these men”
Bloch pulls up Parrott’s deposition where Parrott says “no” when asked if he remembers any TWP party member ever being disciplined for using racial slurs.
Just now in court Parrott says “I don’t remember ever having given that answer… am I impeached again?”
Bloch: you said you had no latitude to spank these men… so this was a problem you could not control?
Parrott: it was a general attempt to discourage the mentality behind racial slurs… rather than discourage every time someone uses a racial slur…
Bloch shows another Discord post from Parrott in the TWP chat where Parrott refers to Charlottesville political Wes Bellamy as a n*****r
Parrott claims in court that saying “Wes Bellamy is a n*****r” was a meme so it wasn’t a hateful thing to say
Bloch asks Parrott about TWP members “repeatedly” using racial slurs in public…
Parott: our goal is not to be the word police
Bloch asks Parrott about TWP being registered as an LLC, registration was moved to Michigan after 2017
Bloch is asking about the various modes of communication TWP used: they had their own Discord (‘tradworker’) where Parrott was a moderator.
Bloch has Parrott confirm that he could delete posts from within the server
Bloch refers to comments on Discord where Parrott told TWP members to be careful about what they wrote in the semi-public ‘lobby’ channel. Shows a discord post where Parrott said to avoid such comments just in the “public chat.”
Bloch is asking Parrott about the process for vetting people into more private channels on the TWP Discord chat, is going over Parrott’s deposition where he said he was trying to only let TWP members in, but it seems this process was later abandoned
At some point TWP members disregarded the secure process because “they all wanted to be on Discord”, Parrott tells the court upon questioning by Bloch
Bloch: you would agree that Telegram is much more secure than Discord?
Parrott: oh heavens yes
Bloch: it makes it harder for example law enforcement to access the messages, right?
Parrott: it might
Bloch: you can set Telegram to set messages to auto delete…?
Parrott: yes, you can set messages to delete on Discord as well
Parrott just denied in court that he was using Telegram in 2017. Bloch pulls up this Discord chat from Parrott in January 2017 where he wrote “Anybody need to convey any shady shit with me can message me on Telegram.”
Bloch is going over Parrott’s deposition answer where he was asked if “violent protests” were “opportunities for TWP to fundraise” and he had answered in the affirmative
Bloch: you agree with me that the more violent you can make a protest the more money you can raise for your organization?
Parrott: that is a despicable misrepresentation…
Bloch is asking Parrott about the Richard Spencer speaking event in Auburn where TWP members engaged in violence against counter-protesters outside the venue, pulls up Discord chats from at the time in April 2017
Parrott is shown this Discord post he sent at the time of the Spencer event in Auburn where he told TWP members to be mindful of “lawfare and optics” while engaging in street fights.
Bloch: are you telling your followers that it’s important for counter-protesters to be seen as the ones instigating violence?
Parrott: no…
Bloch pulls up Parrott deposition testimony where Parrott answered “yes” to the same exact question he just answered “no” to in front of the jury.
Bloch shows the jury another April 18, 2017 Discord post by Parrott where Parrott says “looks like the cops are doing their jobs this time, unfortunately..wanted to watch Heimbach chimp out on livestream” as other TWP members say they want to see violence.
Parrott: yes we were lamenting that it was boring bc things were going safely
Bloch asks Parrott if the term “chimpout” is a racist term, he says it isn’t. Bloch pulls up Parrott’s deposition where Parrott goes into the racist origins of the term.
Parrott at one point got snippy and said “this was in a racist Discord…” in regards to Qs about the chat.
Bloch asks Parrott if he was aware of violence at the Auburn event, Parrott is quick to claim a TWP member had his jaw broken by “antifa”.
Bloch shows Parrott another pic of an injured counter-protester, Parrott says “antifa picked a fight with TWP”
Bloch is asking Parrott if TWP being involved in violence at Auburn was a fundraising opportunity for TWP, Parrott says “all press is good press”
Bloch is asking Parrott about the violent 2016 neo-nazi rally in Sacramento, Parrott claims it was “a rally against antifa violence”
Bloch: do you agree a number of counter-protesters were stabbed at that rally?
Parrott: that was my understanding
Bloch: you agree a man named Will Planer was at that rally?
Parrott: Yes and we stand behind him, he did what he had to do…
Bloch is showing Parrott and the jury a patch that says “Sacramento Spartans 6/26/2016” that shows a person striking a person who is facing away from them with a stick. The patch, made by nazi & TWP members as a commemorative item, is believed to refer to Will Planer. Planer was ultimately convicted of felony assault charges in relation to the event.
Bloch moves into asking Parrott about events at a later event in Anaheim where counter-protesters were stabbed, Parrott claims TWP was not involved Bloch shows the jury a Discord post by Parrott where he wrote “Sacto was incredible. And it could only happen in California because of the tight gun laws.“ Parrott went on to write “Anaheim was awesome, too“.
Parrott claimed his Anaheim comment on Discord was “not in regards to the stabbings” but “the fact that antifa fucked around and found out” (a comment that seems to still indirectly refer to the stabbings.)
Bloch shows another Discord post where Parrott wrote about the TWP “trying to mobilize street action.”
Bloch is asking Parrott about his comments regarding the April 2017 “Battle of Berkeley” where Nathan Damigo was seen punching a counter-protester in the face – Bloch pulls up a TradWorker twitter post that wrote “We congratulate Identity Evropa on their Berkeley victory…” Bloch: when you refer to victory, you mean victory in a fight correct?
Parrott quickly goes on a long tangent about how the Pikeville rally was considered a victory because it was “peaceful”
Bloch: you have also personally yourself punched counter-protesters, correct?
Parrott: I think it was just the one time in Terra Haute.. I’m quite the physical coward…
Bloch: you wrote that “it feels good”…
Bloch: every act of violence that TWP members engage in is self-defense to you isn’t it?
Parrott: if it wasn’t we would have been arrested…
Bloch: you know Jeff Schoep… you’ve known him for 7 years…
Parrott: not very well… we’ve only had a few conversations
Bloch: you helped him develop the website for the Nationalist Front… you talked w Heimbach & Schoep about the website for the Nationalist Front…?
Parrott:…Heimbach would go out and talk to ppl and coordinate with ppl and we would talk about it afterwards…
Bloch shows Parrott & the jury the Nationalist Front website that Parrott helped create – focuses on a part where it says “The Nationalist Front will leverage the power of solidarity and scale to raise our voices and our fists against the.. Left and… Jewish oligarchs…”
Bloch is asking Parrott about the makeup of the Nationalist Front, which included the TWP, the National Socialist Movement, League of the South & Vanguard America (Vangaurd was in and out of the Front according to Parrott, due to the rift between Dillon Hopper & Thomas Rousseau)
Bloch asks Parrott about Chris Cantwell & meeting him at the Pikeville rally – Parrott describes Cantwell as a “shock jock” and “socially volatile.” Asked if he would describe Cantwell as a racist Parrott says “probably”, says it was “an error on my part” in his deposition when he said Cantwell was racist & anti-Semitic.
Bloch: An error on your part because now you’re in court being accused as a co-conspirator of his?
Parrott says he “was not aware” that “every jit and tittle” of his deposition answers would be recorded and read back to him in court.
Bloch asks Parrott about knowing Michael Hill and Michael Tubbs of the League of the South, Parrott agrees he’s known them both for about 6 years but says he only knew them “superficially”. Agrees he’s attended white nationalist conference with both.
Parrott agrees when Bloch asks him if he has known Richard Spencer for 10 years, Parrott says he wants it on the court record “that Mr. Spencer and I have always been frenemies.”
Bloch asks if Parrott used to work for a website of Richard Spencer’s – Bloch points out that when Parrott answered no, Spencer was seen shaking his head at Matt Parrott. Parrott’s lawyer Joshua Smith says Spencer was “shaking his head because he was puzzled.”
Shown his deposition testimony, Parrott says he didn’t do IT for Spencer’s website but he submitted written pieces for one of Spencer’s early alt-right websites.
Bloch says in his deposition Parrott estimated he was a writer for Alternative Right dot com for “two years.”
Bloch is asking Parrott if he was aware of Richard Spencer’s views before Unite The Right, if he thought Spencer was anti-Semitic. Parrott asks to see his deposition, deposition shows he answered “yes.”
Bloch asks Parrott about his history with Nathan Damigo, Parrott reluctantly agrees the two have been to some of the same white nationalist conferences and “private events” but claims “I have only met and interacted with him one time”
Bloch: you were one of the main organizers of Unite The Right, correct?
Parrott:… yes
Bloch: Heimbach was another organizer… the two of you made important decisions for Unite The Right, correct?
Parrott: yes
Bloch: someone else from TWP named Cesar Ortiz was involved… you chose him for security planning for Unite The Right because of his military experience?
Parrott: yes… because of him we got in and out of Unite The Right without any major issues…
Bloch: so you, Mr. Heimbach and Mr. Ortiz worked together to plan Unite The Right, correct?
Parrott: yes, we planned our attendance at Unite The Right…
Bloch: …you were actively involved in planning Unite The Right by early June 2017?
Parrott: i don’t remember exactly but at some point around June that was when we became aware of Unite The Right and decided we would most likely be attending…
Bloch refers to Parrott’s deposition where Parrott agreed under oath they were involved in planning by June 2017
Bloch: You & Mr. Heimbach each had your own set of responsibilities for planning Unite The Right?
Parrott: we were never organizers of Unite The Right, we were attending a pre-existing event as invited guests…
Bloch: you’re saying ‘we were attending a pre-existing event as invited guests of an event that was planned by others’ – wasn’t it true that Mr. Kessler texted Mr. Heimbach in May 22 2017 because he wanted to start the conversation about Charlottesville 2.0..?…
Parrott: yes
Bloch: Heimbach created a Charlottesville planning channel in the TWP server…?
Parrott: …yes
Bloch: …Mr. Heimbach helped you and Mr. Ortiz coordinate the on the ground plans for Unite The Right?
Parrott: yes
Bloch: your responsibilities focused on more managerial matters.. such as vetting who would attend…?
Parrott: yes
Bloch: you worried about things like “optics and lawfare”… one of the things you were actively planning in regards to Unite The Right was that you might be sued in regards to Unite The Right?
Parrott: Yes … we had to prove that attacking our events would not work…
Parrott’s answer talks about being encouraged by the ACLU’s involvement in Unite The Right and says he doesn’t know why the national guard was present “if they weren’t there to maintain order”
Bloch moves to strike Parrott’s answer “after the word yes”
Bloch: in planning for Unite The Right… you took specific steps to prepare for the possibility that you might be sued?
Parrott: yes
Bloch: Isn’t it part of the reason that you put Mr. Ortiz in charge was that you felt he understood and spoke in the language of legal concerns?
Bloch refers to Parrott’s deposition where Parrott said he chose Ortiz because he “understood and spoke in the language of legal concerns”
Bloch: do you agree.. that you had actually specifically worked out a plan for how to help white nationalists who got arrested at Unite The Right?… in your testimony… when asked “was there a plan in place for ppl who got arrested”… you said “yes”
Bloch shows Parrott & the jury a Discord post in the ‘intel’ channel in the tradworker server where Parrott says “this channel is for intelligence discussions. It contains only the Directors and Dr. Cocopuff..” (Cocopuff = TWP member Cory Smith)
Parrott goes on to say that the intel channel should never be discussed outside the channel. The channel also includes TWP financial director Max Macro and TWP Virginia leader Derrick Davis, who marched with TWP at Unite The Right Bloch: you created and moderated this intel channel…you all are discussing.. gathering intelligence…
Max Macro says “at some point we gotta exploit internal factional rivalries based on false flag attacks based around said humiliating info“… Parrott claims he later found out the channel was “not productive” and “closed” it
Bloch: he’s discussing attacks that were made to look like it was antifa?
Parrott: … i don’t care to speculate…
Bloch pulls up messages by Max Macro in the TWP ‘intel’ chat where ‘Max Macro’ says “I think that should be the basic game plan… pool intel on antifa then start a bunch of infighting… take them out that way city by city.” Bloch pulls up another chat in the TWP intel channel Parrot created where Max Macro says “Oh yeah @ MatthewHeimbach @ Parrott make sure to include in the writeup how antifa threatened to ambush us but pussed out…Even if it technically wasn’t antifa”
Bloch: can we agree that what Mr. Macro is telling you to do here is to do a writeup that includes false info about antifa violence?
Parrott: he’s talking about how antifa wasn’t violent
Bloch: asks Parrott about his deposition testimony where he was asked the same exact Q as before where Parrott answered “that appears to be the statement, yes” – apparently conflicting with his later answer in open court just now.
Judge Moon declares a hour long lunch break starting now until 1:20 PM
Judge Moon is back now – says the jury has agreed to show up for the federal holiday this Thursday – so trial is ON for this Thursday the 11th (it was originally going to be an off day)
Parties are talking about scheduling stuff, there is some concern trial will run into overtime
The jury is coming back now, plaintiffs’ attorney Michael Bloch will continue direct examination Qs of Matt Parrott (full name David Matthew Parrott), former co-leader of the now-defunct neo-nazi Traditionalist Worker party
Bloch: we were looking at the intel channel that you moderated and created…
Bloch: …’Max Macro’ who’s the TWP CFO… he writes “oh yeah here’s a psyop idea” and he suggests “using false flag smear attacks to start fights between patriotard militias and antifa“…
Bloch:…Mr. Smith/CocoPuff agrees with him: “The idea of making fake propaganda for them would be great, like brutally anti-white stuff” Bloch in Parrott’s deposition had asked Parrot if he agreed that convo by TWP members was about using false flag psyops to ascribe violent intent to antifa, Parrott says yes.
In another chat TWP member Max Macro says “do you guys think it’d be good to make generic antifa pages or maybe something more local and focuse like a fake Pikeville antifa page…”
Dr. Cocopuff (TWP member Cory Smith) wrote in the TWP intel discord channel: “Dude yes, I had a fake antifa FB and was going around on churches and gun shops, gun clubs and harassing them“
TWP lawyer Josh Smith objects and says this isn’t relevant
TWP intel chats referenced:
Derrick Davis: “Southern Virginia is my Antifa honeypot, feel free to use for intel gathering“
Dr. Cocopuff (Cory Smith): “Okay I’m trying to make this DANK operation for tactical trolling and the subversion of ANTIFA, some Cointelpro-type shit”
Derrick Davis in TWP chat: “can now send out antifa mobs in Charlottesville”
Bloch: just to be clear, Derrick Davis is using the prospect of deception to create the appearance that antifa is going to be violent at Charlottesville?
Parrot: that appears to be what he is saying, yes
Bloch refers Parrott to his deposition testimony where he agreed that “the alt-right showed up to Unite The Right prepared to fight”
Bloch: You and Mr. Heimbach decided TWP members should bring shields to Unite The Right..& discussed w TWP members about whether to bring weapons?
Bloch goes over Parrott’s deposition where he said he didn’t believe anyone from TWP brought clubs to Cville
Bloch shows the jury a photo of Parrott in Cville next to a TWP member holding a club
Parrot: he’s not wearing the same… helmet..he has some other sort of insignia
Bloch asks Parrott about the term ‘RaHowa’ (short for ‘racial holy war’), Parrott calls it a “cringe 80s meme”
Bloch refers to Parrott’s deposition testimony where he said some white nationalists arrived in Charlottesville expecting to fight ‘rahowa’
Bloch asks Parrott about TWP’s route to Charlottesville the morning of August 12 – they met in the JoAnn Fabric parking lot before carpooling to the Market Street garage.
Asked by Bloch if TWP met up with members of the Hammerskins white power gang in the Joann parking lot, Parrott says he doesn’t know.
Bloch pulls up a quote from Parrott’s deposition where Parrott agreed that “Hammerskins were there.”
Parrott says he did the deposition “years ago” and may have forgotten things – Bloch reminds him the deposition was on June 6, 2020, he had a lawyer present, and has had the opportunity to correct his answers in the meantime.
Bloch: you agree with me that the Hammerskins are a skinhead organization with a well-established reputation for street violence?
Parrott:… I believe their reputation for violence is a bit exaggerated
Bloch pulls up Parrott’s deposition where he said “yes” when asked if the Hammerskins had “a well-established reputation for street violence.”
Bloch refers to Parrott’s deposition where he said everyone in the TWP & co. group in Market Street garage was aware there were counter-protesters in their path to the park and planned to “have our shields at the front and push through the antifa to the park”.
Parrott also agreed in deposition that they didn’t actually know who was in their path to the park…
Parrott agrees that while marching towards counter-protesters on Market Street, the League of the South let out a “rebel yell” “war cry” before attacking counter-protesters
Parrott is read his deposition where he agreed that “Michael Tubbs led the charge towards the counter-protesters” and the League of the South members with shields “put their training to work” and that “shield walls were used to break through groups of counter-protesters.”
Parrott also agreed in his deposition, thst after Michael Tubbs led the shield charge, “Identity Evropa sent a detachment of fighters to assist… and relay intelligence to Jason Kessler”
Parrott tries to walk back some of his deposition testimony as “colorful language” but generally agrees with his previous testimony now
Bloch: Mr. Parrott did you write that “Michael Tubbs, an especially imposing League organizer, towered over the counter-protesters like a tyrannosaurus among velociraptors…”
Parrott: yes
Bloch: you agreed that you said “we all united, decisively won the fight”?
Parrott: I did
Bloch: you agreed that you wrote that you “beat the living shit out of your enemies”?
Parrott: I wrote that about the event, I did not lay my hand on anybody during the entire event
Bloch: when the police declared an unlawful assembly, you intentionally disobeyed that order?
Parrott: yes
Bloch: you were arrested for failure to disperse?
Parrott: yes
Bloch: you looked at the officer and said, we will not be replaced?
Parrott: yes
Bloch: you became aware of the fight in the Market Street parking garage?
Parrott: yes
Bloch: Daniel Borden (convicted in the Deandre Harris beating) was a TWP member who marched with you?
Parrott: yes
Bloch shows Parrott a video of white supremacists beating Deandre Harris in the Market Street garage – the video is paused to show Daniel Borden raising a wooden board to hit Harris.
Parrott says Borden was TWP member but says he is “confused” bc Borden didn’t have TWP uniform on
Bloch shows a photo of Daniel Borden at Unite the Right with a white hard hat with “commie killer” written on it
Bloch is asking Parrott about statements he made about feeling a “moral responsibility” to support Borden after Borden was charged for his role in the brutal beating.
Parrott is shown discord posts he made in a TWP chat channel called “danbordendefense”
Parrott agrees that he helped arrange counsel for Borden after he was charged.
TWP chats:
Zebo (Jason Kessler): A couple of the other guys involved in that altercation have reached out to me…
Parrott: I have a very bad memory and do not write down names of ppl involved
The jury is shown a tweet where Parrott blames the death of Heather Heyer and the beating of DeAndre Harris on the police “standing down”
Bloch: you agree that Unite The Right was anything but peaceful…?
Parrott: it is my opinion that relevant to the absence of police and the number of people involved, it could have gone way worse than it did
Parrott and the jury are shown a discord post where Parrott wrote that “aside from having a couple men unfairly held behind the wire Charlottesville was a tremendous victory”
Bloch shows an Aug 22, 2017 Gab post where Parrott wrote a statement that includes the words “we demonstrated strength and were chased off by the national guard not the leftist radicals. We achieved our prerogatives in Charlottesville…”
Bloch: those writings and posts occurred before you were sued in this case… in October 2017?
Parrot: yes
Bloch: and you’ve posted things about this.. since you’ve been sued…
Parrot: yes
Bloch shows a December 3, 2018 Tweet where Matt Parrot wrote “we weren’t even INVITED until the last minute…”
Bloch: in this tweet where you say “we weren’t invited until the last minute”, that’s not true is it?
Parrott:… that might be inaccurate…
Parrot claims in court just now that Matt Heimbach didn’t tell him about being invited to Unite The Right in May 2017 when Jason Kessler first reached out to Heimbach.
Bloch shows a tweet from December 19, 2018 where Parrott wrote “I’ll never understand how Unite The Right, which we grudgingly agreed to at the last minute and had no control over, has gone down in movement lore as pretty much my idea”
Bloch asks Parrott about TWP’s preparations for Unite The Right at some point becoming separate from Jason Kessler, Eliott Kline, Nathan Damigo etc…
Parott says it was due to “personality differences”… “we wanted to do it our way”
Bloch: just to be clear about who you’re claiming to be separate from, you’re claiming this plan was separate from defendants Kessler, Kline and Damigo?
Parrott: yes
Bloch: specifically around the plan to enter the park?
Parrott: yes
Bloch: Nathan Damigo is the leader of Identity Evropa, correct?
Parrott: yes
Bloch: isn’t it true that.. Damigo actually walked into the park with you and the Traditionalist Worker Party?
Parrott: I wasn’t aware of that before my deposition
Bloch plays a video of Matt Parrott “shepherding people into Emancipation Park” – he pauses the video to show Nathan Damigo smiling in the midst of TWP members as he waits to enter the park – the person in front of Damigo has a TWP shirt on. Bloch lets the video play longer, it shows more helmeted TWP members filing in behind Nathan Damigo as well. David Duke walked in with the same group.
Parrott says the video shows TWP “peacefully” entering the park – Bloch replies “after you charged through the counter-protesters?”
Bloch pulls up this Discord message Parrott sent in the ‘Charlottesville 2.0 Discord server – it shows that Jason Kessler (MadDimension) and Heimbach were in touch during/after Unite The Right.
Bloch: just returning to the concept of the separate plan….
Bloch pulls up an August 19, 2017 Gab post by Parrott where he wrote “I still stand with Jason Kessler.”
Bloch pulls up another Discord post by Matt Parrott about “debuing the Charlottesville Defense Fund” – it included Daniel Borden and Jacob Goodwin, both convicted in the DeAndre Harris beating. Bloch shows a Facebook post by Parrott where he says “I just donated 14.88 to Cantwell’s JailATM account”
Bloch: what’s the significance of donating 14 dollars & 88 cents…?
Parrott admits that 1488 is nazi code but tries to frame it as “a meme”
Bloch: you wrote after unite The Right that you “fully sympathize with and support” James Fields…?
Parrott: i also sympathize with the victims
Bloch: you posted on Facebook that Mr. Fields was “a TWP member for life?”
Parrott: i posted that to show support for someone who I believed was wrongfully accused
Bloch: let’s talk about your turning over evidence in this case.. you were sued in October 2018.. at that time you were aware that evidence was important.. In January 2018 you received a request for documents & you knew you had a responsibility re: those documents…you were specifically instructed that you were under a legal obligation to preserve all documents related to Unite The Right…
Parrott: yes
Bolch: you had a Facebook account & you were FB friends with other ppl involved in Unite The Right?
Bloch shows a Facebook post after the lawsuit was filed where Parrott wrote “If you were involved in any altercation in Cville and you haven’t deleted your social media, you should do so…”
Bloch: you’re aware that after you posted this on Facebook, a host of electronic evidence in this case went missing?
Parrott: no…I was informed this was an ignorant thing to post… since then…I have been fully compliant with the discovery process
Bloch: well we’re certainly going to talk about your compliance with the discovery process…
Josh Smith (Parrott/TWP/Heimbach’s lawyer who has been objecting aggressively a lot today): you honor I’d like to request a sidebar
Judge Moon: okay…
Bloch: you’re aware that every single social media account that Matthew Heimbach was on concerning Unite The Right has either disappeared or been deleted since you were sued…?
Smith has objected like 6X and been overruled as Bloch continues w this line of questioning
Bloch: you’re aware Jeff Schoep’s phone fell in the toilet?
Parrott: I heard a rumor…
Bloch: Dillon Hopper said his phone was ‘electrocuted’, you heard about that?
Parrott: no…
Bloch shows a Gab post by Matt Parrott & shows it to the jury – in the post, Parrott wrote “I hereby fully and permanently resign from @ tradworker. I will be making no further public statements. God bless.” Parrott went on to say in the Gab post “All of the information systems are completely air-gapped and will be destroyed within a few hours in order to guarantee all membership information no longer exists anywhere.”
Bloch refers to Parrott’s deposition where he said he texted “once a week” with Matt Heimbach about Unite The Right in the leadup to the event
Bloch: you know you were required to preserve those messages… you instead deleted all messages between you and Mr. Heimbach?
Parrott: I did, but due to the context, not due to this case
Bloch: you agree that Matt Heimbach’s cell phones disappeared before this case… this jury will not see a single text message between you and Matt Heimbach…
Parrott: correct
Bloch: your ex-wife Jessica Parrott was a member of TWP… no texts you exchanged with her were provided in this case?
Parrott: …they were deleted due to a domestic situation.. I deleted all messages w her as well as all messages with her lover who was Mr. Heimbach at the time… after the domestic incident i deleted Mr. Heimbach and my wife at the time from my phone…that was the scope of it…
Bloch: let’s talk about if that was the scope of it… you also maintained a definitive attendance list of TWP members at meetings?
Parrott: that was lost when Stripe deleted our account
Parrott claims the TWP membership list was “deleted by Mailchimp, not by me”
Bloch: you claim that you contacted Max Macro to ask for TWP documents.. he refused to produce any TWP documents he had on any of his devices?
Parrott: I assume so
Bloch: Tony Hovater, a high ranking TWP member… also refused to produce documents, rather than comply with court orders he resigned from TWP?
Parrott: …yes…
Parrot complaints about “attempting to comply with discovery while the different services are deleting our accounts,” when asked about the “attendance list” he says was on Mailchimp
Bloch refers to emails Parrott sent- “these were supposedly the official communications about Unite The Right..these went out in the first week of August 2017..even though you weren’t able to recover any others..from the Mailchimp account you were able to preserve these 5 emails?”
Parrott claims those 5 emails were found via inboxes whereas all the other emails were lost when Mailchimp deleted TWP’s account
Bloch refers to Parrott’s deposition where he testified that he was not aware of any other emails preserved from that account after the MailChimp purge
Bloch: is it true that when you drafted these emails before Unite The Right you had potential litigation in mind?
Parrott: I had potential litigation in mind at all times…
Bloch pulls up TWP security chief Cesar Ortiz’s emails ent to TWP members on August 3, 2017 with “rules for behavior” in Charlottesville – it says “there will not be chanting of any sort or exchanges of vulgarities”
Bloch: you were telling your TWP members that there was no cursing allowed at Unite The Right?
Parrott: yes
Bloch pulls up a video from Unite The Right that shows a man in a TWP shirt who says one of the “Republican values” he was at the rally for was “to kill Jews.”
Asked about the video, Parrot says he was “making a joke”
Bloch: there was also a rule in the email that said no chanting, can we agree that there was in fact chanting at Unite The Right?
Parrott: people got swept up in the moment, I’m sure the policies were broken here and there…
Bloch: is this similar to the membership guide that says no racial slurs?
Parrott: the similar idea is that you aspire to something…
Bloch shows Parrott one of the other “official dispatches” emailed by TWP leadership to members, it says “There will be a series of chants, given in threes, that will be given to rally attendees prior to the event”
Parrott: we wanted to avoid bad optics chants that might spontaneously break out… you have found an inconsistency in our communications…
Bloch: this official dispatch also says that the roman salutes should not be used.. then there was a directive that TWP members were to “smile”… the smiles were meant to intimidate?
Parrott: we wanted to project positivity
Bloch: it says “Nothing intimidates our opponents more than confidence, and each and every attendee needs to radiate positivity, which is contagious after all. Smile!”
Bloch: so that directive.. says no third reich symbols… later in the same email it ends with Hail Victory, right ?… Hail Victory is the english translation of the third reich slogan Sieg Heil?
Parrott: …’hail victory’ is something that we commonly did
Bloch: even though these documents are supposedly the official dispatches, there is reference to a phone tree that you created…
Parrott: …we did not pull that together in time for the event
Bloch: what you say is to please reply to that email with your mobile phone number… you did receive those responses… and they did not survive the email purge…?
Bloch goes over the TWP email that classifies TWP attendees of Unite The Right into 3 categories, one of which is “willing to fight”
Judge Moon: we’ll take a 20 minute recess now
Afternoon break
Matt Parrott has returned to the witness stand but Judge Moon is not back in court yet.
Judge Moon is back at the bench – Michael Bloch’s direct examination of Parrot should resume in a moment – the jury is coming back in now.
Seems that Bloch is actually done on direct w Parrott – James Kolenich, lawyer for Jason Kessler, Nathan Damigo & Identity Evropa – is cross-examining Parrott now.
Kolenich is asking Parrott about a declaration he submitted in a previous lawsuit in another state- Parrott admits the declaration he signed “later ended up being false despite my best efforts at the time.”
Kolenich eagerly moves from Parrott admitting the false declaration to asking about Parrott writing that Identity Evropa “sent fighters” to the TWP formation during Unite The Right. Parrott says that he doesn’t think that statement was false but it wasn’t a legal statement.
Kolenich: Heimbach already testified in this trial.. you remember he testified Identity Evropa is not part of the ‘hard right’?
Parrott: yes
Kolenich: …TWP would not count on Identity Evropa in a fighting situation?
Parrott: the ‘hard right’ have decades of experience with these sorts of events… Identity Evropa has a different perspective…we were not on the same page
Kolenich: are you aware who Justin Berger is?
Parrott: i do not recall
(UR note: Berger was a TWP member)
Parrott: i do not remember that conversation, I do not remember him
Kolenich: you do not remember Justin Berger?
Parrott: no
Kolenich: do you remember a ‘Coup Chat’ involving yourself, Matt Heimbach, and someone named Hannah, regarding Jason Kessler?
Parrott: I do not
Kolenich: may I approach the witness to refresh his recollection
Judge Moon: yes
Parrott says he doesn’t see himself in the chat but “I do know there was some division over respecting Mr. Kessler’s decision making and there was some drama”
Kolenich: please describe the drama and division regarding Mr. Kessler and TWP?
Parrott: we did not like Mr. Kessler’s planning… we felt that we were smarter than him and were going to do it our own way..
Kolenich: you were not cooperating or taking direction from Mr. Kessler regarding Unite The Right?
Parrott: we made a decision, the Market Street crew made a decision, to not listen to Mr. Kessler…
Kolenich: when the League of the South and the Nationalist Front group encountered the people with their arms linked at the Market Street entrance that was contrary to what Mr Kessler told you to do?
Parrott: Contrary would not be the right word but he was not involved
Judge Moon says Matt Parrott is an ‘adverse witness’ in regards to Kolenich
Kolenich: earlier you were speaking to Mr. Bloch about a video showing Mr. Damigo and David Duke walking into the park amongst TWP members…would you like to complete your answer now?
Parrott: …we had no event coordination with Mr. Damigo, w Mr. Duke, I didn’t know Mr. Duke was going to be there…at no point did we conspire to enter the park with Mr. Damigo or Dr. Duke
Kolenich: no further Qs
Richard Spencer (representing himself) is cross-examining Matt Parrott now.
Spencer asks Parrott about AlternativeRight dot com which Parrott testified he had written some early articles for
Spencer: mention was made of your working for that website, can you clarify how you participated…?
Parrott: I submitted a couple… blog posts that were published… but I had no involvement… with the leadership, with the technology…
Spencer: have I ever paid you as a worker of mine in any capacity?
Parrott: no
Spencer: was I ever a member of TWP?
Parrott: No
Spencer: did I ever participate in your Discord server?
Parrott: No
Spencer: did I ever participate in the Discord server for the Unite The Right rally to your knowledge?
Parrott: no
Spencer: who invited TWP to the Charlottesville event?
Parrott: I understand Mr. Kessler engaged Mr. Heimbach at some point in June…
Spencer: was I involved in the formation of the Nationalist Front in any capacity?
Parrott: none
Spencer: mention was made of a defense project…after Unite The Right?
Parrott: there was talk of that but it did not come together…
Spencer: there’s been some kind of dispute on August 12 and in testimony about groups going their own way, you entered the park as part of a “Market Street crew” and other people entered a separate way – during your entrance to the park did you see me at any point?
Parrott: No
Spencer: In determining that you were gonna go your own way, was I involved in any decision making with that?
Parrott: no
Spencer: do you remember seeing me at any point on August 12?
Parrott: no
Spencer: did we have any communication…?
Parrott: no…
Spencer: who was the organizer of Unite The Right?
Parrott: on paper, it was Mr. Kessler
Spencer: no further questions
David Campbel, lawyer for James Fields, asks Parrott if he ever met or knew James Fields or saw him at any event, Parrott says no. Campbell is done fast.
Bryan Jones, lawyer for Michael Hill, Michael Tubbs & League of the South, is cross-examining Matt Parrott –
Jones: you mentioned a rally in Pikeville and the “Pikeville template”.. what did you mean by the “Pikeville template”?
Parrott: the total event management experience… safe and fun…coordinating with the police with a large group with a stadium-style strategy to where there would be no actual meaningful interface between the two sides
Jones: did you see James Fields in Pikeville?
Parrott: no
Jones: there was some discussion of things on Discord where TWP members discussed ‘psyops’ against antifa…
Jones circles counter-protesters in footage of the AM of August 12- “did you psychologically manipulate that person to block the road..”?
Plaintiffs: objection, leading
Jones: were you deposed in this case?
Parrott: yes, twice
Jones: did plaintiffs show you a single instance from August 12 where you psychologically manipulated a counter-protester?
Plaintiffs: objection
Parrott: I have a rule to never be clever and I did not engage in ‘psyops’ to pretend to be antifa or to manipulate antifa at any time
Jones: part of the Deandre Harris market street video were shown to you… have you seen earlier parts of that video?
Parrott: yes I have
Jones: there was also an email you sent to TWP members about smiling… do you know if anyone was injured by smiling?
Parrott: no
Jones: did you conspire to commit racially motivated violence with Michael Hill and Michael Tubbs by smiling at the rally?
Parrott: no
League of the South lawyer Bryan Jones has some more snide Qs about smiling then is done w his cross of Parrott.
Edward Rebrook, lawyer for Jeff Schoep and the National Socialist Movement, is cross-examining Parrott over Zoom, sounds like a baby in the background
Rebrook: was Jeff Schoep involved in planning the Unite The Right rally with you?
Parrott: …no
Rebrook: did you during the rally witness Mr. Schoep committ any violence during the rally?
Parrott: …no
Rebrook: did you see any member of the NSM commit any acts of physical violence?
Parrott: i do not recall seeing that
Rebrook: i have no further Qs
Chris Cantwell (representing himself and generally using this trial as a performance opportunity) is up next to cross-examine Matt Parrott.
Cantwell: some joke about 3s came up during your direct examination… what’s the bit?
Parrott: ….
Cantwell pulls up Parrott’s tweet where he says “I exist for 3 reasons alone” where he disparages minorities, Jews and women
Cantwell: what’s so funny about that?
Parrott: you’re expecting an escalation and it ends with telling a woman to calm down… that’s the joke
Cantwell: are you familiar with the structure of a haiku?
Parrott calls a haiku a “meme template”
Cantwell: precisely, if you know the template… someone who’s not initiated might not get it…
Cantwell refers to a video the plaintiffs played during Parrott’s direct examination where a TWP member listed his 3 “Republican values” ending in “3: killing Jews”
Cantwell: does that line fit the format of the joke you were describing…?
Parrott: yeah, its inverted where he does banal things… but it’s similar
Cantwell: yeah.. that’s good
Cantwell seems to relish dropping the n-word casually in open court just now when referring to Parrott’s Discord post saying “Wes Bellamy is a n****r”
Cantwell: plaintiff’s counsel asked you if I was a racist… an anti-Semite… do you think I care if anyone calls me a racist or an anti-Semite?
Plaintiffs: objection
Judge Moon: sustained
Cantwell shows the aforementioned Discord post where Parrott said “this is the channel where we can and should say that Wes Bellamy is a n****r”
Cantwell: what channel is that?
Parrott: that is the private vetted tradworker channel…
Cantwell: was it standard in alt-right circles to say “Wes Bellamy is a n****r”?
Parrott: yes, it was a standard meme…Wes Bellamy has made many anti-white statements
Cantwell: do you recall if Wes Bellamy’s anti-white statements had to with the motivations for the alt-right rally?
Parrott goes off on a tangent about loving confederate statues
Cantwell references the Gab post Parrott made about Wes Bellamy saying “ppl like him” should “fear us again”
Cantwell: do you understand the process we’re going through here to be voluntary… do you understand govt action to be a voluntary or compulsory institution?
Parrott:..compulsory
Cantwell: so when we’re talking about political power what are we talking about?
Parrott:..making ppl do things under the law
Cantwell: Wes Bellamy was the mayor
Parrott: my statements were made about him politically.. not saying black ppl should fear us
Cantwell is now going over a Facebook post Parrott made about how Unite The Right was supposedly not a white nationalist event
Cantwell is now asking Parrott about Mike Cernovich and other “alt-lite” figures who initially planned to attend Unite The Right and later “punched out” and didn’t attend
Cantwell: was it the goal of the Unite The Right rally to unite these two sides?
Parrott: it was
Cantwell: did that work out?
Parrott: it doesn’t appear to have succeeded
Cantwell is showing the Gab post from earlier where Parrott wrote “Fuck the Jews. They’re the problem.”
Cantwell: was this public… were you trying to hide your views?
Parrott: … I do not attempt to hide my views…
Cantwell: who was the TWP membership guide intended to be seen by?
Parrott: …members…
Cantwell: was it published on the website?
Parrott: I don’t recall… it might have been…
Cantwell is asking Parrott a bunch of questions about Hitler & Mein Kampf, and Charles Murray’s racist book “the Bell Curve”
Cantwell: you met Mr. Heimbach at the American Renaissance conference… is that put on by Jared Taylor?
Parrott: yes
Cantwell: do you know Jared Taylor to use profanity or advocate violence?
Plaintiffs: objection, relevance
Judge Moon: Mr. Cantwell is not a lawyer and these Qs are so innocuous…
More Q & A from Cantwell & Parrott about American Renaissance, Judge Moon tells Cantwell “you’ve talked about it enough”
Cantwell: what role if any did I have in your plans for the Unite The Right rally?
Parrott: none
Cantwell: have you and I ever texted?
Parrott: I don’t believe so
Cantwell: was I in the TWP discord?
Parrott: …no
Cantwell: Max Macro talked about these ‘false flag’ attacks… did you ever carry out any of these attacks?
Parrott: no
Cantwell: did you have any antifa flags made?
Parrott: no
Cantwell: does the TWP have a lot of resources?
Parrott: no
Cantwell: you posted on social media that people should disable their social media… have you ever disabled a Facebook profile before?
Parrott: I have
Cantwell: does disabling a profile delete the data?
Parrott: no… it is not destruction of data
Cantwell: so when you were telling people to disable Facebook were you telling them to destroy evidence?
Parrott: I was not
Cantwell: no further questions
Joshua Smith (lawyer for Matt Parrott, Matt Heimbach & the Traditionalist Worker Party aka TWP) is up to cross-examine Parrott now.
Smith: how many rallies has TWP held or participated in over the years?
Parrott: I believe roughly a dozen…it gets fuzzy bc TradYouth was a different org…
Smith: what was the first rally that you recall?
Parrott: the first rally as TWP would have been around 2015… first rally of Me & Heimbach collaborating would have been the pro-Syria rally in Michigan in 2013
Smith: was that rally a success?
Parrott: we had a couple dozen people show up… had some small-time favorable coverage.. we got the word out
Smith: after that did TradWorker hold any other rallies?
Parrott: there was a Columbus day event in Philadelphia where we went to a Christopher Columbus statue.. there was a large antifa presence there… I believe that was 2015…
Smith: would you say that rally was a success? Why…?
Parrott: we celebrated Columbus Day… had relatively favorable media coverage… despite the… liberal counter-protesters… there was no violence… everybody had a good time…
Smith: after that… what other rallies did TradWorker put on…?
Parrott: All i can think about bc of the deposition is Pikeville, Charlottesville and Shelbyville…
Smith: you believed that Pikeville was a success? Why..?
Parrott: 100s of our people gathered… there was a canned food drive…
Smith: did TradWorker hold a rally in 2015 in Cincinnati?
Parrott: there was a White Lives Matter rally… I remember it went successfully and safely and funly… they had attempted to have a BLM media event and we crashed it by being behind the cameras and that was a lot of fun
Smith: was there an event in Bloomington, IN?
Parrott: yes an anti-white speaker was speaking on campus, we attempted to peacefully protest his event.. the police successfully managed the event…nobody was hurt…
Smith: was there a protest that TradWorker held in 2013 in regards to Boxcar Books?
Parrott: yeah that’s the one with the terrible sign (referring to his own lynching placard shown earlier)…it was a leftist Marxist bookstore
Smith: was there any violence at that?
Parrott: No
Smith: sorry, there’s just so many peaceful events that TradWorker put on…
Planitiffs: objection
Smith starts to ask Parrott about the Sacramento event (the one where TWP guys stabbed counter-protesters), asks to approach the bench for a sidebar about an “evidentiary issue”
Sidebar is happening now
Sidebar is done
Smith: you spoke about the Sacramento event.. tell me everything you know about the Sacramento event…
Judge Moon: Not everything! You have to steer him to something relevant to this case.
Smith: were there any TradWorker members who were attacked by anybody at this event?
Parrott: yes
Plaintiffs: objection, Mr Parrott was not present at this rally
Judge Moon: was he there?
Parrott: I was not there
Judge Moon: well that ends it
Smith: were you at any rallies where TradWorker members were attacked?
Parrott: at Unite the Right, at Terra Haute.. at the Bloomington event our people were attacked…although there were no injuries
Smith: but they were still attacked, do you know who attacked them?
Parrott: they were definitely wearing the clothes and accoutrements of antifa
Smith: so with this history of tradworker members beign attacked, Tradworker members have to protect themselves…
Plaintiffs: objection, leading
Judge Moon: sustained
Smith: what is TradWorker’s position on safety?
Parrott: the antifa members attacking us were becoming more well-funded….
Plaintiffs: objection
Judge Moon: sustained
Smith: what are TradWorker’s views on safety?
Parrott: we knew we would be attacked… we were very cognizant of transportation.. the shields, the helmets, the gathering all together was the foundation of it
Smith: were you present for anything involving Deandre Harris?
Parrott: I was not present for that, no
Smith: let’s talk about those emails that you wrote…that first email, ‘Charlottesville event coordination’ was the subject… in that first email, would you read that email to us?
Parrott reads the email, it describes TWP’s uniform, flags and ‘shield squad’ plans for Charlottesville
Smith has Parrott read another paragraph about Virginia being an open carry state, policies re concealed carrying at the rally etc, the email gets onto the earlier referenced part about “no chanting” or “vulgarities”
Smith pulls up the 2nd August 7, 2017 email sent to TWP’s registered Charlottesville attendees, asks Parrott to read some more portions out loud talking about “de-escalating conflict” and following the law and not inciting etc
Smith: you mean what you say?
Parrott: yes, this was back stage, this was for only people who had signed up to attend and passed the vetting process…
Smith asks about the email telling TWP members to “smile” in Charlottesville- “were you saying that members of Tradworker should intimidate people with smiles?”
Parrott:No.. I believe it projected positivity & encouraged the right atmosphere for the event that we were going for
Smith is going over a 3rd email TWP leadership sent out with an update about the permitting process for the Charlottesville rally
Smith asks Parrott about the Richard Spencer Auburn event, Parrott talks about the permit for Spencer’s event being legally contested in Auburb. Parrott, who did not attend at Auburn, says a TWP member was injured there
Smith asks Parrott about March 2018 Lansing, Michigan event where TWP members were outside a Richard Spencer speaking event
Plaintiffs: objection, relevance
Judge Moon: this was in 2018, after the events in Charlottesville so it shouldn’t have anything to do with Charlottesville…
Smith is going over the 4th email sent out to TWP members attending Unite The Right… Parrott is asked about portions of the email dividing TWP attendees into 3 “teams.” Parrott says the “Alpha team” was “women, children, older people”, Bravo team was people who were willing to fight, and Charlie team was people who were willing to risk civil disobedience if the permit was revoked (just Parrott.)
Smith: we’ve heard testimony… about counter-protesters blocking the way of the ‘Market Street crew’ to get into the park… was there any space in the road.. to go around?
Parrott: there was some talk of squeezing on the side of the vans to get around… I was not in the front but it was my analysis that there was not some better way to get into the park… we took the shortest, most sensible route
Smith: you coordinated w the police on that?
Parrott: the League of the South coordinated with the police
Judge Moon: did you coordinate?
Parrott: no
Judge Moon: what do you know about other ppl coordinating w the police?
Parrott: what i heard….
Judge Moon: that’s hearsay
(Earlier testimony from League of the South members and evidence shown suggests that the police did not coordinate with this plan as Heimbach, Parrott and others have claimed.)
Smith asks Parrott about his previous declaration made in another case that was found to be false – Parrott says he had previously “made a false statement that the TWP was not incorporated” bc he was “not familiar with the paperwork”
Smith: but you didn’t intend to lie, did you?
Plaintiffs: objection
Judge Moon: sustained
Smith: was your mistake that you made… intentional?
Parrott: it was not
Smith: did you conspire with anyone to commit racially motivated violence?
Parrott: absolutely not
Smith: I have no more questions, I have everything I need.
Plaintiffs decline to re-direct, Matt Parrott is dismissed as a witness.
Judge Moon excuses the jury until 9 AM tomorrow morning.
Judge Moon has left the bench after some brief discussion w the parties where the audio was muted on the media room feed; court is done for the day now.
Unite The Right On Trial:
Rush transcripts: Day 1 | Day 2 | Day 3 | Day 4 | Day 5 | Day 6 | Day 7 | Day 8 | Day 9 | Day 10 | Day 11 | Day 12 | Day 13 | Day 14 | Day 15 | Day 16
Read Unicorn Riot's live tweets from trial proceedings - Day 1 | Day 2 | Day 3 | Day 4 | Day 5 | Day 6 | Day 7 | Day 8 | Day 9 | Day 10 | Day 11 | Day 12 | Day 13 | Day 14 | Day 15 | Day 16 | Day 17 | Day 18 | Day 19
